某网友的个人推荐: -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼) @华人论坛:枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of

枫下拾英 / 乐韵书香 / 古典音乐40CD版本推荐 -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼); 2006-5-28 {4050} (#2996821@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛昨天的聚会上, 俺提到这个List , 王塑建议贴上来给大家看看, 就是这个:

1. Beethoven 9th (total number of recs: 31)
Furtwangler Bayreuth EMI (4 votes)
Karajan 1977 DG (3)
Szell Sony (3)
Furtwangler Lucerne 1954 Tahra (3)

2. Beethoven 3rd (27)
Karajan 1963 DG (5)
Harnoncourt Teldec (4)
VPO/Furtwangler EMI (3)

3. Beethoven Piano Concerto No. 5 (27)
Fischer/Furtwangler EMI (6)
Fleisher/Szell Sony (3)

4. Beethoven 6th (17)
VPO/Bohm DG (6)
Philharmonia/Klemperer EMI (2)
Karajan 1963 DG (2)
Columbia/Walter Sony (2)

5. Beethoven 7th (16)
VPO/Carlos Kleiber DG (6) Note: the rest received one mention each.

6. Beethoven 5th (19)
VPO/Carlos Kleiber DG (12)
Philharmonia/Klemperer EMI (2)
BPO/Furtwangler Tahra (2)

7. Orff Carmina Burana (19)
Jochum DG (10)
Blomstedt Decca (4)
de Burgos DG (3)

8. Holst The Planets (22)
Dutoit Decca (7)
LPO/Boult EMI (5)

9. Dvorak 9th (28)
Kondrashin Decca (6)
BPO/Kubelik DG (5)
Reiner RCA Living Stereo (3)
LSO/Kertesz Decca (3)

10. Dvorak Cello Concerto (12)
Rostropovich/Karajan DG (5)
Fournier/Szell DG (3)

11. Vivaldi The Four Seasons (25)
Il Giardino Armonico Teldec (6)
Shaham/Orpheus CO DG (3)

12. Mozart Piano Concerto No. 21 (23)
Casadeus/Szell Sony (8)
ECO/Perahia Sony (4)
Lipatti/Karajan EMI (3)
Kovacevich/LSO/Davis Philips (3)

13. Mozart Requiem (18)
Gardiner Philips (5)
LSO/Davis Philips (3)

14. Mozart 41st (15)
COE/Harnoncourt Teldec (2)
VPO/Bohm 1962 DG (2)
ASMF Philips (2)
VPO/Bernstein DG (2)

15. Rachmaninov Piano Concerto No. 2 (22)
Richter/Wislocki DG (8)
Cliburn/Chicago SO/Reiner RCA (3)
Rachmaninov/Stokowski RCA (3)
Ashkenazy/Previn Decca (3)

16. Handel Messiah (15)
Pinnock Archiv (3)
LSO/Davis Philips (3)
AAM/Hogwood L'Oiseau Lyre (3)
Beecham RCA (3)

17. Handel Water Music (7)
Pinnock Archiv (2)
Harnoncourt Teldec (2)

18. Mussorgsky Pictures at an Exhibition (Ravel orch.) (16)
Chicago SO/Reiner RCA (4)
Karajan 1986 DG (4)

19. Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique (13)
Norrington EMI (2)
LSO/Davis Philips (2)
BSO/Munch RCA (2)
Concertgebouw/Davis Philips (2)

20. Grieg Piano Concerto (6)
Curzon/Fjelstad Decca (2)

21. Brahms 1st (12)
NDR/Furtwangler Tahra (4)
LSO/Horenstein Chesky (2)
VPO/Furtwangler DG (2)

22. Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 (18)
Richter/Leinsdorf RCA (7)
Gilels/Jochum DG (3)

23. Bach Goldberg Variations (10)
Hantai Opus 111 (2)
Rosen Sony (2)

24. Bach Brandenburg Concertos (21)
Pinnock Archiv (5)
Goebel Archiv (4)
Harnoncourt Teldec (2)
ECO/Britten Decca (2)
I Musici Philips (2)

25. Bach Mass in B minor (10)
Gardiner Archiv (6)

26. Tchaikovsky 5th (11)
Leningrad/Mravinsky DG stereo (5)
Leningrad/Mravinsky DG mono (2)

27. Tchaikovsky 6th (12)
Leningrad/Mravinsky DG stereo (6)
Leningrad/Mravinsky DG mono (2)
Philharmonia/Giulini EMI (2)

28. Tchaikovsky 1812 Overture (4) those who bothered to respond to this
work
Dallas/Mata Pro Arte
Chicago/Barenboim DG
Minneapolis/Dorati Mercury
Chicago/Reiner RCA Living Stereo

29. Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No. 1 (19)
Horowitz/Toscanini 1943 RCA (5)
Cliburn/Kondrashin RCA (4)

30. Schubert 9th (14)
BPO/Furtwangler DG (4)
COE/Abbado DG (3)
VPO/Solti Decca (2)

31. Schubert 8th (7)
Szell Sony (2)
Philharmonia/Cantelli EMI (2)

32. Schubert "Trout" Quintet (10)
Curzon Decca (7)

33. Mahler 1st (14)
LSO/Horenstein Unicorn (4)
Columbia/Walter Sony (4)
Concertgebouw/Bernstein DG (2)

34. Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 3 (11)
Argerich/Abbado DG (6)
Browning/Leinsdorf EMI (2)

35. Mendelssohn 4th (5)
LSO/Abbado DG (2)

36. Mendelssohn Violin Concerto (9)
Grumiaux/Krenz Philips (2)
Milstein/Abbado DG (2)

37. Haydn The Creation (2) not so popular, huh?
BPO/Karajan DG
RPO/Dorati Decca

38. Chopin Piano Sonata No. 2 (7)
Sokolov Opus 111 (3)
Argerich DG (2)

39. Bruckner 4th (11)
BPO/Jochum DG (7)
VPO/Bohm Decca (2)

40. Stravinsky The Rite of Spring (15)
Cleveland/Boulez Sony (8)
Columbia/Stravinsky Sony (2)更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

几点说明: -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼); 2006-5-28 {313} (#2996832@0)
1. 这个 LIST 不代表本人观点, 它是 classical 新闻组的网友们自发搞的一次评选结果, 后面括号里的数字是得票数);

2. 这个 LIST 并不全面, 很多重要音乐家的重要作品没有入选;

3. 这个 LIST 截止到本世纪 1997年;

4. 最重要的是, 这个 LIST 推荐的都是历史版本, 这对现在仍然活跃在乐坛的音乐家不公平, 也不利于古典音乐的发展.

对你所说的第四条有很深的印象和一定的感受,,,, -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998204@0)

样本空间是什么? -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-5-28 (#2996834@0)

请看下面: -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼); 2006-5-28 {635} (#2996836@0)
"For those who were around the NG in April 1996, you may remember my attempt
at compiling a "most recommended" list of recordings. Well, here are the
results (finally!). Please email me at i...@swiftech.com.sg with your
remarks, comments and criticism. Hope you enjoy reading it!

To the person who started the "Standard Recommendations" thread: I think
this will help. Good luck!

I will only list the recordings that received a substantial number of
recommendations. Email me if there are any queries or errors. Some of the
results are statistically dismissable due to the extremely low number of
responses. "

看了, 想法是:有空间没有位置 -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998289@0)

? -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼); 2006-5-29 (#2998485@0)

我是想知道那些发表意见的是何方神圣,,,, -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2999047@0)

某网友的个人推荐: -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼); 2006-5-28 {1758} (#2996848@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Mozart -- Symphony Nos. 40, 41: Bruno Walter, Columbia Symphony
Mozart -- Don Giovanni: Giulini, Philharmonia Orchestra
Mozart -- Concerti for Horn: Brain, Karajan, Philharmonia Orchestra
Beethoven -- Symphony Nos. 5, 7: Carlos Kleiber, Vienna Philharmonic
Beethoven -- Symphony No. 9: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic (1977);
Furtwangler,
Bayreuth 1951
Beethoven -- Fidelio: Klemperer, Philharmnoia Orchestra
Bruckner -- Symphony No. 8: Karajan, Vienna Philharmonic
Bruckner -- Symphony No. 9: Walter, Columbia Symphony
Donizetti -- Lucia di Lammermoor: Karajan, RIAS Symphony
Britten -- Peter Grimes: Britten, Royal Opera House
Bellini -- Norma: Serafin, La Scala Orchestra (Angel 47303)
Mahler -- Symphony Nos. 1 & 2: Solti, London Symphony
Mahler -- Symphony No. 2: Rattle, CBSO
Mahler -- Symphony No. 8: Solti, Chicago Symphony
Mahler -- Symphony No. 9: Bernstein, Vienna Philharmonic; Karajan, Berlin
Philharmonic (the later one); Walter, Vienna Philharmonic
Mahler -- Das Lied von der Erde: Walter, Vienna Philharmonic
Puccini -- La Boheme: Beecham, RCA Victor Symphony
Puccini -- Tosca: De Sabata, La Scala Opera Orchestra
Strauss, R -- Der Rosenkavalier: Karajan, Philharmonia Orchestra
Strauss, R -- Elektra: Solti, Vienna Philharmonic
Strauss, R -- Salome: Solti, Vienna Philharmonic
Strauss, R -- Die Frau ohne Schatten: Solti, Vienna Philharmonic
Strauss, R -- Ariadne auf Naxos: Karajan, Philharmonia Orchestra
Verdi -- Rigoletto: Serafin, La Scala Orchestra
Wagner -- Der Ring des Nibelungen: Solti, Vienna Philharmonic
Wagner -- Tristan und Isolde: Furtwangler, Philharmonia Orchestra
Wagner -- Tannhauser: Solti, Vienna Philharmonic更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

不用说，看前面几条，就知道是谁推荐了。呵呵。 -liuyuehe(六月荷); 2006-5-28 (#2996851@0)
另一位网友的点评: -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼); 2006-5-28 {4371} (#2996852@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛What follows are some comments on suggested recordings culled from two
posts. Only goes to show how tricky things get when you use the word
"standard."

Charles Muntz wrote:
> Mozart -- Symphony Nos. 40, 41: Bruno Walter, Columbia Symphony

Me, I'd opt for Szell/Cleveland over Walter, good as the Walter is.

> Mozart -- Don Giovanni: Giulini, Philharmonia Orchestra

Joseph Krips on London; Dmitri Mitropoulos on Orfeo; Bruno Walter
on an old pirate Met broadcast; Fritz Busch on EMI are among the other
"standard" recs here.

> Beethoven -- Symphony Nos. 5, 7: Carlos Kleiber, Vienna Philharmonic

Standard voice of dissent on my part.

> Bruckner -- Symphony No. 8: Karajan, Vienna Philharmonic

Horenstein/London SO; Furtwaengler/Vienna PO (1944); at least one
Guenter Wand and Eugen Jochum, too, I'm sure.

> Bruckner -- Symphony No. 9: Walter, Columbia Symphony

Me too, but I find myself in a very small minority here.

> Mahler -- Symphony No. 2: Rattle, CBSO

Several Klemperers are also frequently cited.

> Mahler -- Symphony No. 9: Bernstein, Vienna Philharmonic

... or Bernstein/Berlin PO (my personal pref among the Bernsteins),
Jascha Horenstein/London SO 1966 (Music and Arts); Barbirolli/Berlin
PO (EMI); Walter/Vienna PO 1938 (EMI); ...

> Mahler -- Das Lied von der Erde: Walter, Vienna Philharmonic

Others cite Horenstein, which I'm not so keen on, and Klemperer,
which I am.

> Wagner -- Der Ring des Nibelungen: Solti, Vienna Philharmonic

Clemens Krauss/Vienna PO; Hans Knappertsbusch at Bayreuth; several
Furtwaenglers. Not so simple!

From the original Carlos Kleiber thread:

>: In article <336EB717.4...@phoenix.princeton.edu>, Paolo Pesenti
><p...@phoenix.princeton.edu> wrote:
>: >There are a few recordings that meet the near-unanimous-choice criteria.
>: >To mention but ten heterogeneous possibilities:
>: >Beaux Arts in Haydn trios

Does this reflect the superiority of the Beaux Arts or the paucity
of competition? It's been too long since I last heard the recordings
for me to be able to say.

>: >Richter in Schubert Wanderer Fantasie (at a very minimum)

Edwin Fischer, at the least, is also very fine.

>In article <5knjbp$...@news.acns.nwu.edu>, a...@nwu.edu (Anthony Y. So) wrote:
>: I'm not familiar with this recording, but Richter's Sofia Recital Pictures at
>: an Exhibition on Philips is a must.

I would opt for the roughly contemporaneous Budapest over the
Sofia, but we won't quibble on that one.

>: Also, Horowitz playing Schumann's Kreisleriana and the Rach 3.

Rach 3?!? What about David Helfgott?

No, seriously, how about Rachmaninov, Earl Wild, Byron Janis,
Martha Argerich, and I'm sure I'm forgetting at least six more
"standard" recommendations.

On 6 May 1997 19:36:33 GMT, marc...@helix.mgh.harvard.edu (Jeremy

Marcus) wrote:
>Good list! How about:
>Horowitz/Scriabin piano works

Don't forget Richter! (Or Sofronitsky, from what I understand.)

>Furtwangler/Beethoven 9 (1951) - but I still like '54 more!

... and others like '42, and blasphemers like me like (gasp)
Karajan ...

>Bylsma/Bach Cello Suites

Two versions to pick from. Also there's Fournier, Casals,
Rostropovich, ...

>Hollywood 4tet (& friends)/Schubert 5tet and Schoenberg Verklarte Nacht

What little I've heard of the Hollywood recording of the Quintet
left me underwhelmed; I'd still opt for Casals & friends, Alban
Berg/Schiff, or Lindsay/Cummings, myself.

>These two should probably be on the list, but I've not heard them:

>Richter/Prokofiev Piano Sonata #8

Gilels on Melodiya.

>Moravec/Chopin Nocturnes

Tough claim, with recordings on the market by Ignaz Friedman,
Mieczyslaw Horszowski, Dinu Lipatti, ... (but perhaps you were talking
about a complete set).

>And runner-up: Gilels playing the Appassionata, Waldstein, and Les Adieux.

Richter (for me, but hardly for everyone) in the Appassionata,
though I'm agreed on the Waldstein tip o' the hat.

>Nowhere to my knowledge is such a stunning LvB sonata
>compilation available on one disc.

I'll have to think about that one ... (might make an argument for
the London disc whose "compilation" is Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli
in Op. 111).更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

耶……这符合8GG的口味…… -liuyuehe(六月荷); 2006-5-28 (#2996861@0)

8GG不好这口吔~~~ -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-5-28 (#2996945@0)
知我者瞎起哄也. 我就是记不住事儿. 人名, 曲名, 啥也记不住. 再就是唱歌记不住歌词儿. -x888(粤剧怎么那么好听呢); 2006-5-28 (#2997761@0)

Me too. 不过，咱不强迫自己记，咱就争取多闻，多听。。。。。。 -eglispa(一呵呵); 2006-5-29 (#2998303@0)

还有多看, 全方位媒体输入是古典音乐普及的新思路 -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998635@0)

基本同意。说点题外话：我有贝交9的伦敦版，是所有版本中最差的，有机会真应该让大家见识一下。：-) -liuyuehe(六月荷); 2006-5-28 (#2996850@0)

我有贝交9的 Klemperer 版，是所有版本中最差的, 比比看谁的更差 ;-) -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼); 2006-5-28 (#2996854@0)

好，我们把最差的版本供出来，供各位乐友瞻仰…… -liuyuehe(六月荷); 2006-5-28 (#2996856@0)

这个就合我胃口了. 知道什么是差, 差在哪儿, 才能知道那些好的怎么个好法儿. 看来我入门是指日可待了. -x888(粤剧怎么那么好听呢); 2006-5-28 (#2997765@0)

大哥乐观了。单靠他们晃那一下两下绝对远远不够哇。；） -eglispa(一呵呵); 2006-5-29 (#2998323@0)

昨天听了你对版本的高见，受益匪浅。你与老迷还有屁屁虫，每个人都带来了柴一和拉二，加上我自己手里有的，共有4个不同版本的柴一和拉二，看来大家都喜欢柴一和拉二。屁屁虫带来的李赫特版的柴一和拉二非常棒（就是榜上的#15）。。。 -noproblem(大可以); 2006-5-28 (#2997581@0)

谢谢夸奖,不幸的是,我今天早上才发现车的后厢里有炒面的味道....还好发现及时 -pipibug(皮皮巴格golf); 2006-5-28 (#2997783@0)

原来是这样, 我后来摸到厨房到处翻箱倒柜找面条,结果是空手悻悻而去, 原来,皮爷得来全不费工夫嘛,,, -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998210@0)
谢谢你给我李赫特版的柴一和拉二钢协。不知道谁给我留下了一双小协，怀疑是你丢下的，这个小鞋(Baby shoes)我就不要了。。。 -noproblem(大可以); 2006-5-29 (#2998236@0)

这个李赫特版的柴一听起来像James LAst乐队的速度, 稍为力量上强一点, 展现了richter的手指技巧, 突出了俄罗斯刚钢琴学派的一惯风格, 就是少了透彻的酝酿和领悟的过渡,,,一家之言一家之言 -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998302@0)

俺觉得李赫特版好过阿格里奇的（Sorry Laomi)，不明白为什么阿格里奇要把柴一弹得像赶火车。。。 -noproblem(大可以); 2006-5-29 (#2998348@0)

argerich有好几个柴一, 阁下是说哪一个?请明示 -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998508@0)

俺只有一个argerich的柴一版本，还是老迷的，CD中只有2首，一个是拉三，一个是柴一，我对比她与李赫特的版本的第一乐章，李是22分钟多，她只有19分钟。。。 -noproblem(大可以); 2006-5-29 (#2998808@0)

哦, 你那个版本是argerich和指挥Kiril合作的, 听过, 是lifesucks给我的, 我推荐你的偶像abbado和argerich合作的柴一, 可能你已经知道, 我比较有印象,,,, -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 {102} (#2999044@0)

笑得真甜 -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-5-29 (#2999053@0)
这是微微一笑还是阴险一笑？。。。 -noproblem(大可以); 2006-5-29 (#2999151@0)

有何高见？ -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-5-29 (#2998031@0)
我是投你们所好。。。 -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-5-29 (#2998073@0)
Ashkenazy/Previn Decca (3)录音效果想象不到的好 -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-5-29 {25} (#2998081@0)
如果你有 HI End器材的话。

不用Hi-Fi也行----他们演奏的帕格尼尼狂想曲是我最喜欢的版本 -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-5-29 (#2998189@0)
我有Previn的拉1，拉2和拉3，可惜没有夏生同学说的“HI End器材”:(。。。 -noproblem(大可以); 2006-5-29 (#2998219@0)

我也没有，我是塞到别人的器材里才发现的 -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-5-29 (#2998260@0)
Previn的拉钢可没有什么特别之处, 建议不要重点保存, -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998283@0)

Previn弹还是指挥？ -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-5-29 (#2998292@0)

previn 有没有拉钢不是很清楚, 但是他和ashkennazy的拉二. 他的拌奏好过ash的钢琴, 另外, 法国美女grimoud的拉二,以颗粒清晰而动人,是新生代的最好的演绎,力荐,,, -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998516@0)
我说的版本Previn是指挥，但他的钢琴弹得也很好。。。 -noproblem(大可以); 2006-5-29 (#2998802@0)

八卦一下, 现在的老婆是mutter, -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998947@0)

展开，继续展开。。。 -noproblem(大可以); 2006-5-29 (#2999153@0)

两口子的事不便展开,,,,,,previn是唱片公司列出的20世纪的大钢琴家, 以前听过但是现在很少听他的,60年代后主要shi指挥, ,,,,我很难相信他弹的拉二会很好,,, -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2999204@0)

谢谢你的东道，你家的客厅布置得很有品位，让我家领导又动了买房的心思。;-) -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼); 2006-5-29 (#2998505@0)

就是就是，现在知道小资情调都要怎样营造了。。。 -eglispa(一呵呵); 2006-5-29 (#2998519@0)

对新来的同学我向来都是扶上马送一程...这个要支持 -pipibug(皮皮巴格golf); 2006-5-28 (#2997780@0)
Beethoven 6th .Karajan 1963 DG (2); 太快，被认为很臭的版本 -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-5-29 (#2998056@0)

德国的高速公路也很发达, 你去乡村游览的时候的速度就是如此, 应该去德国农村现场考察, 感受卡拉OK那一版的特殊,,,,, -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998200@0)

还是太快，乡间舞蹈象是士兵操练，乡间闲逛象是午休时间的放风，好像回晚了要被layoff似的 -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-5-29 (#2998227@0)

快吗?德国的高速据说是不限速;-)~~话说回头, 当年托斯卡尼尼的音乐也快,据说就是美国人在车上听音乐所喜欢的, 所以我才如此猜测~ -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998233@0)

好小紫, 言而有信, 帖而有物, 是条汉子,,,要不是迫于生计, 我真的是有话要说,,, -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2998192@0)

答应了朔爷的，岂敢不照办 :-D 您就言简意赅地说几句吧，剩下的我们来领会。 -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼); 2006-5-29 (#2998467@0)

仅供参考：我曾经啥也不说，把卡拉杨的(60S)、富特文格勒(40S/50S from lao-mi)、伦敦无名氏(80S)三个版本的贝交9第四乐章合唱“弟兄们昂首挺胸健步迈向未来……”那段，播放给我家小儿听，他给出的排名是1卡2富三无名氏…… -liuyuehe(六月荷); 2006-5-29 (#2998312@0)
发现, 40个条目, 只有一个小提琴(老门), 8个钢琴,分布很散,柴一,伯二,(没有伯一,我很同感),老贝占前六,说明大家还是喜欢炒作, Stravinsky占末流, 也是意料中,Dvorak坚守两席,holst, orff也上了,引人注目,其他正常,, -njzy("王朔"); 2006-5-29 (#2999250@0)
这四十个曲目是楼主自己挑出来的? 室内乐好象很少啊. -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-5-31 (#3002254@0)

copy & paste ;-) -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼); 2006-5-31 (#3002290@0)

还有其它CD的评比吗? -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-5-31 (#3002295@0)

Let me gooooogle in rec.music.classical group -hubeir(爱吃鲫鱼); 2006-5-31 (#3002357@0)

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