"Every scientific proposition and every musical composition is aimed at eternity. What is true we believe will outlive the sun." ----Professor John Polanyi's speech at Bach Festival.---> -klassische(老音乐迷) @华人论坛:枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of

http://www.news.utoronto.ca/bin5/thoughts/forum040202.asp

Amazing pictures from Hubble: -culouzi(醋篓子); 2006-11-26 (#3342827@0)

Are these drawings? -lifesucks(选择你最喜欢的昵称！); 2006-11-26 (#3342843@0)

哈勃望远镜获得的图像 -culouzi(醋篓子); 2006-11-26 (#3342854@0)

ding! awesome images -lifesucks(选择你最喜欢的昵称！); 2006-11-28 (#3345987@0)

这些awesome images上的所有东西, 将来有那么一天, 会不可避免地被撕裂, 碾碎, 粉身碎骨, 最后一切都不复存在....... 宇宙的深刻和复杂, 它的末日会是怎样的情景, 超出了任何人的想象力...... -ro-ro(天琴座RR); 2006-11-28 (#3346154@0)

"Every scientific proposition and every musical composition is aimed at eternity. What is true we believe will outlive the sun." ----Professor John Polanyi's speech at Bach Festival.---> -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 (#3346175@0)

有启发！ -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-11-28 (#3346186@0)

what about this: -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 {335} (#3346203@0)
"It was the Romantics, with their celebration of the irrational — which gave us such dubious treats as nationalism and patriotism — who insisted that music speaks to the soul, whereas science addresses the mind. Some here may nod assent to this proposition. On reflection, they should not. For there are not two cultures, but one."

文章是从哲学范畴谈音乐和科学的共性，跟您老和糟糕认为“音乐就是科学“的观点还是不一样的。 -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-11-28 (#3346227@0)

我从来没说过音乐就是科学. 但我认为西方音乐中有很多科学的, 理性的成分, 正是这些成分使得西方音乐在世界音乐中独占敖头. 另外也别把Polanyi的话太当真, 他是搞化学的. -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 (#3346240@0)

“For there are not two cultures , but one.“，这种忽悠方法很常见，“cultures"概念一拔高，什么东西都一样了。 -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-11-28 (#3346238@0)

再举一个如此忽悠的例子? -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 (#3346268@0)

记得大学时第一堂人文讲座时就这样忽悠文化：“远处有座山，那时自然；山里有个洞，那就是文化了“。既然文化就是人类改造自然界的产物，那什么东西在这里都是共通的了。 -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-11-28 (#3346298@0)

哈哈, 一听就是工科院校开的人文课. ：））））））） -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 (#3346304@0)

文章待我有空再仔细读. 我不想再挑起一场音乐是不是科学的争论. 它们有相通之处, 但如果非要说它们是一回事, 由此会推出很荒谬的结论. 打住. -ro-ro(天琴座RR); 2006-11-28 (#3346228@0)

Bach and the Notion of Musical Science
-lifesucks(选择你最喜欢的昵称！); 2006-11-28 (#3346249@0)

这种文章我读到过. 此科学非彼科学也. -ro-ro(天琴座RR); 2006-11-28 (#3346260@0)

One day Pythagoras passed a smithy as he was walking in the forest. He stopped to listen to the beautiful sound of hammers striking the anvil. After he had worked out that it was ... -lifesucks(选择你最喜欢的昵称！); 2006-11-28 {708} (#3346283@0)
it was the head of the hammer which was responsible for such exceptional sounds, he examined all the hammers and found that the weight of each individual hammer was in a particular proportion to that of another: 12, 9, 8 and 6 pounds. You could hear an octave each time the largest and the smallest hammer struck the anvil (12 : 6), a pure fifth emerged in the relationship between the 12- and 8-pound hammers; he found the straight fourth in the relationship between 8 and 6 or 12 and 9, and the whole note rang out when the two middle hammers were being used (9 : 8).' This means that the reason why these sounds were in harmony was attributable to the mathematical relationship that existed between them.
Based on the story about Pythagoras, Boëthius concluded that music is a matter of numbers. The medieval conceptualization of music also led to the view that music is a matter of numerical relations translated into sounds. -lifesucks(选择你最喜欢的昵称！); 2006-11-28 (#3346284@0)

Music is constructed on numbers, but is much more than numbers. -ro-ro(天琴座RR); 2006-11-28 (#3346326@0)

well, theoretical physics is constructed on equations, but is much more than equations. -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 (#3346333@0)

数学是物理唯一的工具, 但数字不是音乐唯一的工具, 否则潭盾的"水"就不是音乐. -ro-ro(天琴座RR); 2006-11-28 (#3346349@0)

从微积分到随即微分方程到super string理论, 工具也是不断在变的. 你说的对, 我们还是打住吧. -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 (#3346381@0)

每到这时候，糟糕大师悄悄的溜了。。。　：－）） -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-11-28 (#3346392@0)

I was busy. OKay I'm back! What is it now? superstring theory? that's easy. alright lets see ....umm...... wait, that was incredible. how'd you do that? -lifesucks(选择你最喜欢的昵称！); 2006-11-28 (#3346640@0)

看, 物理里也有string, 音乐里也有string, 所以物理学就是音乐. :)) -ro-ro(天琴座RR); 2006-11-28 (#3346401@0)

Disagree。听了这段有规律鼓点节奏的“Dawn in space”之后，偶“以为”你说的这些个如Boëthius都是在把公理当成是定理来证。They could be right one way or another. However, this is not it. -culouzi(醋篓子); 2006-11-28 {789} (#3347428@0)
ZT
Dawn in Space
http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMLAJWO4HD_index_0.html
'Dawn chorus' signals detected by ESA Cluster's WBD (Wide Band Data) instrument.
High-energy electrons get trapped in the Earth's radiation belts. When they are accelerated by the electromagnetic field, they produce this familiar sound. With the help of missions studying particles in space like the four Cluster spacecraft, ESA scientists are investigating how the electrons are accelerated and how the sound like the 'dawn chorus' of birds is created.

还是没打住. :) 科学里也有归纳与推理两种方法(induction and deduction), 爱因斯坦和佛洛依德的理论是典型的deductive reasoning. 而上面文章提到的应该算是deductive reasoning的一种, 当然是科学了! -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 (#3346291@0)

老迷 is as dedicated a wissenschaftler as a musiker. -lifesucks(选择你最喜欢的昵称！); 2006-11-28 (#3346306@0)
逻辑错误：搞经济的喜欢听音乐，搞工程的也喜欢听音乐，说以搞经济就是搞工程？或搞工程就是搞经济 -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-11-28 (#3346311@0)

你这说的啥? 我们讨论的跟爱好有什么关系? -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 (#3346317@0)

这是用极端的例子指出你的逻辑问题：有两个东西有相同的特性，这两个不一定是同样的东西。 -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-11-28 (#3346334@0)

is that my logic? (#3346329) -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 (#3346339@0)

Here is the logic: Deductive reasoning is a scientific method. Any application of such a method in a systmatic way can be called science. -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 (#3346329@0)

or can not be called science; -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-11-28 (#3346343@0)

right, names do not matter. People often call elegant equations and structures in science as work of art as well. The bottom line is classical music share many common elements with science, which cannot be said of most other type of music. -klassische(老音乐迷); 2006-11-28 (#3346362@0)

有些共性，这个《mind and soul》还是值得一读 -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-11-28 (#3346384@0)

还需要有正确科学的前提；宗教的有些观点也局部的用到归纳与推理两种方法；但宗教不是科学； -eagle_no1(瞎起哄); 2006-11-28 (#3346352@0)

Masha'allah!!!! -ely(爱丽姐姐); 2006-11-28 (#3346271@0)

这个题材，如果配上英国作曲家Holst的(The Planets)组曲，再合适不过了，哪位大师烦请配乐？。。。 -noproblem(大可以); 2006-11-28 (#3346273@0)

@

"Every scientific proposition and every musical composition is aimed at eternity. What is true we believe will outlive the sun." ----Professor John Polanyi's speech at Bach Festival.--->

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