Their tax cut is really superficial in my opinion. GST cut is viewed as a spending encouragement mechanism. This put US in trouble these two years. (traditional western value: Spend Spend and Spend more). -chsung(SevenPower) @华人论坛:枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of

枫下茶话 / 政治经济 / 和本人亲共反共立场无关，但反对以中共的立场号召加国华人选某某党，或不选某某党，并以此达到分裂族裔立场的丑恶目的。是中国人，就请出来选你想选的党，管他人何事！我不选绿党了，打算选加国共产党。 -mikesmith(老猫); 2008-9-14 (#4688296@0)

钉子户最可笑，以为反共就可以捧纳粹的臭脚，以为中加断交就是反共了。保守党和他们的支持者都犯极端主义的毛病。什么事情不是从实际出发，而是走极端。 -dedacle(_); 2008-9-14 (#4688443@0)

我什么时候说中加断交了？国际关系本来就是互相施加压力，相互协商的概念，片面的讨好中国独裁者，根本就没用。自由党十几年的贸易赤字就是个明证。 -szs11(钉子户); 2008-9-14 (#4688782@0)

You brain damaged? Which nation has does not have trade deficit with China? Liberal in power was like this, Conservative in power was like this and will be like this too. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690079@0)

So you can't possibly hope the Liberal could change this situation even if they are elected -omega4(omega); 2008-9-15 (#4690092@0)

Hope what? There is no hope to change the trade deficit in near future. I am simploy pointing out don't use this as a reason to against Liberal or Conservative. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 {124} (#4690103@0)
You want trade surplus? Then force everyone to buy everything made in canada. Oh wait, nothing is made in Canada these days.
BTW, I have no hope for Liberal to win this election period thanks to stupid Dion. I just don't want Conservative to form majority government. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690115@0)

组成多数党，目前条件下很难，几乎已经是不可能的。不过能不能说说，你为什么反对保守党成为多数党政府？ -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690122@0)

Mostly because of their right wing conservative anti immigration, pro-war, superficial actions and their big fat liar party leader. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 {591} (#4690168@0)
Why do I say they are anti-immigration? The convervative govenment introduced many new polies which may seem to help new immigrants. But if you ask people applied for immigration around you, the process basically stopped (including family reunion and skilled workers) since February due to their so called new immigration policy which I don't see any hard proof that it helps new immigrants. And don't forget that Conservative had always been anti-immigrant before they came into power. The reason for so many new pro-immigration policy is because they want to attract new immigrant votes.

谢谢 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690199@0)
个人觉得保守党还是支持移民国策的，反对的是目前的移民法案。而这个法案确实效率低下，并导致大量移民生活困难，无法重新回答合适的岗位。我支持他们加强国防，但是反对对外战争。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 {61} (#4690214@0)
觉得保守党挺务实的，their big fat liar party leader？怎么说？

Please check my follow-up replies for big fat liar. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690222@0)

我理解是保守党的政策重在消化已经移民的新移民。在整个加拿大就业关系没有很好的重新配置前，不宜大量引进技术移民（尤其是高学历的）。父母团聚，其实是加拿大的福利政策束缚了移民政策，如果不是全民医疗和10年后的养老金制度，相信加拿大很乐意加快进程。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690226@0)
传统的保守党反对移民是事实，但是作为执政党，我还看不出有这种趋势，只有移民发展困难，这里面原因很多，不是政府一家的事情，还有整个社会文化的因素。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690228@0)

So you aknowledge Conservative's traditional anti-immigration policy which is good. As for their future policy, we can only guess. You guess that Conservative has changed and I guess they they are still the same just pretending to be nice now. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 {27} (#4690270@0)
There is no right or wrong.

我无法预测极端保守势力是否抬头，如果加国经济恶化，这种可能性不能被排除。只是目前保守党政府的移民政策，我还是相对同意的。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 {137} (#4690290@0)
如同父母生孩子，生而不养就是不负责任；哈博拨款支持移民再就业和资质认证。有助于加拿大消化已有的移民，人尽其用。而不是搞一堆ESL学校来敷衍。

If the money is not managed properly, it will just be a waste. I am a finaical auditor. I have audited a not for profit organization receiving grants from the government to run some immigration help program. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 {490} (#4690313@0)
But in my opinion, these program are useless because before they even start the program, the overhead eats up most of the budget already. But that's not the darkest side of the story. Most of the program was outsourced to third party consulting companies. But you know who is the owner of these companies? Verying conveniently, the ower of the companies are director of the non-for-profit organization who happend to be a buddy to the head of the govenment agency which provides the grant.

这很容易理解，我曾经说过加拿大就是制度性腐败，当政者可以合法且简单的获取利益，自然不必采用贪污受贿这种低级的手段。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 {266} (#4690326@0)
他们拥有的是制度的建立，在制度的平台下，一直是这么运作的，所以我们不能改变制度，就必须利用其规则。保守党削减社会福利是合理的，分配资源给新移民就业是有利于移民安居的。（尽管那些社会机构一定会从中牟利，这是条产业链，打破了谁也没饭吃。）保险，油价无不是利益纠缠的结果。

That's why I always take the position to against party in power. There is no point to criticize the part no in power because they can't do anything. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690334@0)

如果是这样，你要反对的只是执政方，并且不喜欢多数政府。少数政府会导致极大的社会资源的浪费，政策的不稳定和无法全面贯彻。一个低效政府不是一件好事情。从中投机取巧的人会更加多。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690343@0)

Why do you think minority govenment will waste resources. I actually believe parties like conservative should only run a minority government so they won't do some crazy things. And this minority government had their way on almost all policies so far. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 {139} (#4690415@0)
(Historically, Canada went better during minority government than during majority government if I remember it right. You can double check.)

因为我觉得即便是多数政府，也就一个任期，至少应该让保守党有机会全面贯彻它自己的hidden agenda。如果做的好，民众会继续支持，如果做不好，下一个选举就是保守党下台的日子。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 {248} (#4690447@0)
好过现在，什么事情都在国会中扯皮很久，真正需要解决的事情别无限期耽搁。比如汽车厂补贴，我认为哈博已经做了他能够做的最大努力了。虽然谁都知道这种杯水车薪根本于事无补。安省的制造业不是给点钱就可以缓过来的。很多问题上我认为哈博是缩手缩脚，无用武之地的。

持有这种观点的人很多。可能有媒体长期对保守党的负面报道的因素在内。支持自由党，反对保守党的Toronto Star是加拿大发行量第一的报纸。支持保守党，反对自由党的National Post的发行量不到Toronto Star的一半。 -lionel(Lionel); 2008-9-15 (#4690170@0)
Pro-war Conservative: I don't think i need to talk too much about this. Just look at Afghanastan, how many soilder has died there? and did they accomplish anything there? Sorry, the newest report indicates they probabaly done more harm than good. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 {60} (#4690181@0)
And how many Conservative politician send their kids to war?

If we allow Al-Queda to operate freely in Afgan and grow stronger, do you think we can avoid another big attack for 7 years? -omega4(omega); 2008-9-15 {446} (#4690202@0)
Yes, you can say the world could still be very safe even if we allow Al-Queda and Saddam to remain in power, I can also say that letting China run by the Japanese, and North America run by the Soviets is not such a bad idea either. We both don't have a proof that this is not the case. Just a reminder that it's the Liberal who sent Canadian soldiers to Afgan, not Conservative. And neither party has any plan to withdraw troops for many years.

If you read the newest independent report, almost all of them said sending troops their was useless. And truth has spoken that both war in Iraq and Afghan failed. Both countries in ruin now and death toll keeps going up. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 {240} (#4690219@0)
Don't mix world war II to today. They are different in nature. You do not have world thretening Nazi in power anyway. The war against terror is actually the war to grab oil in disguise.
BTW, have you sent your kid to war? Are you in army?

Nobody likes war, just like nobody like tax or death. But why very few people will elect the only party who want to withdraw the troops, the NDP? That's because people also understand we can not avoid war just like we can not avoid death and tax -omega4(omega); 2008-9-15 (#4690268@0)

So you are not denying that the war is a total failure. Instead you are telling me the war can not be avoided? BTW, it is a total lie that the war can not be avoided. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 {98} (#4690279@0)
It was not Canada's war to begin with. And you still failed to tell me why this war is necessary.
对你这种保守言论，我只能说，你可以选择对抗来保护自己。问题是你得有能力彻底的消灭敌人。如果没有，你还是得准备下一次攻击，原因是你现在的立场。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690306@0)

What would you do after 911 if you were the President? Call Bin Laden to Surrender? Do you agree that there're some people in the world who will only keep attacking you if you show signs of weakness? -omega4(omega); 2008-9-15 (#4690328@0)

那为什么美国首先出兵的是伊拉克，而不是阿富汗？ -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690335@0)

I can't believe you don't even know this. They sent troops to Afgan first, to Iraq only in March, 2003 -omega4(omega); 2008-9-15 (#4690341@0)

sorry ,时间混淆了。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690379@0)

上次我就提醒你不要为布什的错误政策辩护，有些事实是你无法辩驳的。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690336@0)

人家不选NDP是因为它没有好的经济政策和政治势力，而不是因为人民不关心撤军，从上次民调就可以看出，多数加拿大人支持撤军。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690330@0)

Their tax cut is really superficial in my opinion. GST cut is viewed as a spending encouragement mechanism. This put US in trouble these two years. (traditional western value: Spend Spend and Spend more). -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 {793} (#4690194@0)
For middle-class and low-income, spending encouragement does not really help them because they do not have much left to spend anyway. So it is really encourage high income people to spend more which create an illusion that everybody got a tax cut. Those text book, fitness, public transit does help middle-class and low income people a bit. But a lot of it is really "make-look-good" credit. For example, the text book is identical to the monthly tuition credit. So why can't they just increase the monthly tuition amount? Because they want to send a message "Hey, I created something new. Vote for me for more." And it actually works. This gives me an impression that COnservative is election-oriented party. They know how to win election but is not necessarily place the people in mind.

美国式的消费是成功的，但是注定是错误的。但是保守党的减税计划还是有意义的，减少了政府的税收，降低了个人消费支出。适当的刺激了经济。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 {478} (#4690277@0)
消费经济，过度消费经济，计划经济都有一定的合理性，美国的是过度消费，借贷消费，严格的说，全球都在使用这一模式。但是任何消费最终都得有人买单。减税和这个话题关系并不大。也不会严重影响加拿大人的消费模式，反而政府税收减少了。没有一个政党是为了穷人服务的，别希望他们真的把人民放在第一位。我不喜欢工会，但是不得不承认，工会的平台足以对抗资本，确切地说它已经成为了一个新的资本。
战争，我也反对，不过我更加关心经济。阿富汗的战争注定是另外一场越战。穷，环境恶劣，民众意识强烈，没有利益。

Tax cut can be done in a lot of different ways. They could have cut income taxes instead which will encourage more saving and actually help mid-class and low-income people to get more after-tax income. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 {73} (#4690285@0)
Yet, they chose the worse way in my opinion. BUt that's just my opinion.

他们不是增加了免税储蓄来促进储蓄。当然也适当增加银行货币存款。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690357@0)

I do not believe the tax free account has been passed. I think it is only a draft and will not be finalized until 2009 budget is finalized early next year. And for some reason, no one is talking about it in this election -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690421@0)

BTW, the canadian public sector employment increase by 6.5%. Now I don't know how much was contributed by fed. govenment. But the overall Canadian government is getting bigger and bigger and the govenment spending is not really under control. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690292@0)

Lying Stephen Harper: Remember Income Trust tax? Remember that 5-year election law he just broke? Remember he said he gonna make MPs who betrays their party to run election again yet the conservative accepted a traitor from Liberal right away? -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690201@0)

这里的例证我同意，哈博的重点是中西部的发展，安省的确是被忽略和伤害的。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 {222} (#4690303@0)
但是我认为安省的状况本来就很令人担忧，制造业没有优势，可以用一潭死水来形容，一旦美国经济受挫，首当其冲的肯定就是安省。安省的移民密集度和政府的财政补贴也是不匹配的。我觉得安省的省长是有问题的，没有为安省争取更多的联邦利益。

Sorry, the Ontario govenment did ask for help from Federal. But dear Jim basically slamed the request and accused Ontario government for screwing up Ontario Economy. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690320@0)

And since Conservative came to Power, I don't remember they did anything for Ontario except sending Jim Flehearty to bad month Ontario. I don't know why anyone living in Ontario would want to vote Conservative. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690208@0)

Around 2 million voters in Ontario will vote for the Conservative Party in this federal election. If you don't know why, you need to improve your understanding. -lionel(Lionel); 2008-9-15 (#4690230@0)

What a dump ass reply. Can you be more lame? -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690265@0)

Your reply and your attitude show clearly that you do not allow any other voice. While people respect your choices, you should also respect theirs. -lionel(Lionel); 2008-9-15 (#4690657@0)

I allow other voice. Please check my other replies. But your reply just plain stupid. Did you answer any of my question? No! Instead, you told me to improve my understanding?? WTF is that? -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690660@0)

I tried to answer this question "I don't know why anyone living in Ontario would want to vote Conservative." -lionel(Lionel); 2008-9-15 {255} (#4690681@0)
Around 2 million voters in Ontario who are going to vote for Conservative because they do not agree your claims. We must understand every voters cast their votes for their interest. They believe the Conservative Party stands for their interest the most.

And I just said Harper did nothing for Ontario and you could not prove me otherwise. So you: 1. Did not answer my question instead throw me another useless comment. 2. Proves that those 2 million people in Ontario vote Conservative for no reason. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-16 (#4692764@0)

只是你的这种说法很容易让人联想到东西部的对抗，好比美国南北对抗。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690367@0)

well. I do not have to power to create a civil war. But everyone knows Stenphen Harper likes western and Mid Canada better than Eastern Canada. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690423@0)

这的确是事实。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 (#4690429@0)

我的基本观点是保守党的经济主张是可行的，安省的问题保守党有责任，自由党同样有责任，如果解决目前的困境是关键。 -kingsw(Steven); 2008-9-15 {852} (#4690397@0)
少数党政府导致了国会的扯皮和无效率。既然保守党占据绝大多数支持，应该给保守党一个多数政府的机会，让他有计划的彻底实施其战略。如果有错，他也没有任何借口再诿过于人。目前全球经济受美国的影响进入寒冬，制造业和消费产业一定会冲击很大，银行，投资，房产都可能出现大规模的清盘倒闭。这个时机，自由党的那些社会福利的构想和制造完美家园的理念是不切实际的。我承认保守党彻底上台有可能会伤害移民的利益，随着经济的倒退，反对移民的声音也会出现。但是作为一个执政党，如果真的出现反移民的政策，对加拿大的伤害绝对比经济衰退更加严重。所以我不很担心加拿大对待移民的政策。对外外交是保守党的弱项，同样是自由党的弱项，和中国保持良好关系的那么多年里，加拿大重来没有试图同中国开展双边合作。美国一直是利益优先，而加拿大人只能用有点迂来形容。对外战争是保守党政纲中最大的败笔，同样也是其价值观的体现。出于经济的考量，加拿大也不会很快从阿富汗撤军。无论哪个党上台，结果都是注定的：失败。

Check this link. The trade deficit increases more in 2005 and 2006 than before 2004. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690087@0)

钉子户最可笑, no further ties with her families in China. -axe(Just A Joke); 2008-9-14 (#4688873@0)

her? -mikesmith(老猫); 2008-9-14 (#4689109@0)

他们搞性别攻击是常见的事，就是那种人品而已。 -szs11(钉子户); 2008-9-15 (#4690108@0)

Sexist, gayist, racist are traditional conservative value. -chsung(SevenPower); 2008-9-15 (#4690118@0)

我选大麻党。气死保守党和美国佬。 -dedacle(_); 2008-9-14 (#4688452@0)
选票是自己的，就应该从自己的利益出发去投票。不要被人拿族群的名义被煽动，“加国华人，就应该XXX”，根本就不对。华人的收入千差万别，利益也各不相同，选择最适合自己的政党就好。 -szs11(钉子户); 2008-9-14 (#4688789@0)

well said -mikesmith(老猫); 2008-9-14 (#4688858@0)
不只是利益，还有信仰和观念在起作用。美国很多人就是因为反对堕胎而成为共和党支持者，同样，加拿大很多人因为对中国的感情而成为某个政党支持者。至于利益，只要你的种族选举力量大，就会有利益向你倾斜，和政党关系不是很大。 -intj(INTJ); 2008-9-14 (#4689089@0)

可惜哈泊不会"懂"啊 -denny(DEN); 2008-9-15 (#4689370@0)

Totally agree. -ttttt(左卍 or 右卐); 2008-9-15 (#4690355@0)

@

Their tax cut is really superficial in my opinion. GST cut is viewed as a spending encouragement mechanism. This put US in trouble these two years. (traditional western value: Spend Spend and Spend more).

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