问题不在于系统的设计是不是易于扩展，而在于谁来扩展。 -heeltoe(不過三) @华人论坛:枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of

工作学习 / 科技领域杂谈 / 1/10精力对付工作和脑残，2/5精力管理家务，其他用于娱乐，休息，和扯淡，高尔夫基本一周一次，GYM每周2-3次，剩下的，基本都用于开发我自己的fast web App Dev Framework. 现基本已具雏形，实现了我十年前就有的梦想。 -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-16 {229} (#5552940@0)
This is the fundation of community facebook, or, within minor changes, customer relationship management system for small or medium businesses.

Business partners are badly needed to promote, to support this wonderful software !

实现梦想就好了，别往下想，想多了要失望。把系统建立在一个封闭的home build framework上基本上可以说是灾难。 -heeltoe(不過三); 2009-9-16 (#5553007@0)

This is basically a web service, B2B, ESB, XML open-sourced system, a simplified Spring framework, but I don't use their libraries. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-16 (#5553017@0)

本来我以为你的框架不是开源的，现在被你说糊涂了。到底是还是不是？ -heeltoe(不過三); 2009-9-16 (#5553065@0)

It itself is not an open source system, but its design is implemented on open architecture, for example, you can design your own portlet(CSS, HTML, user / role) for a certain data XML, and ask system to integrate for yourself. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-16 {86} (#5553078@0)
The system can be a web service as well, to offer data service by registered url call.

那就对了，是灾难。不管你的框架有多好用，它自己不可能跟上未来的变化，它自己也不会fix bug。客户的系统变成了依赖于你。 -heeltoe(不過三); 2009-9-16 (#5553161@0)

你問得有些奇怪，那個系統不這樣？系統的設計很重要，決定于它是否符合潮流，易于擴展，我從公司所用衆多系統中取長補短，不斷汲取營養。 -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-16 (#5553181@0)

There must be exising framework from IBM, Oracle, my favorite Microsoft and even open source. They have better support and bigger community. Why do a cusotmer want to choose your framework? What benefit? Advantage? -hkchan(0); 2009-9-16 {337} (#5553202@0)
In case you win Super 7 this Friday, and you go on for a long vacation with your family or other unforseen event, are you a long time trustworth partner?

I have been asked about similar questions in the last 6 months and I failed to provide satisfactory answer to my potential clients.

I hope you can do better than me. Good Luck!

For architectural design, I learned from IBM Notes Domino, Spring network, Oracle ADF and APEX, I now beat them all. For workflow, I am learning from Agile. Microsoft? Who cares. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-16 (#5553220@0)

Hope you don't mind but if I were your potential client and these are the answer to my question, then I am not impressed. You didn't answer my questions at all. Why do I want to buy your product over the others? -hkchan(0); 2009-9-17 {541} (#5553887@0)
Why do I trust you? What are my benefits to use your product? What is your product competitive advantage over other major palyers? Who are the major players? What is your risk? disadvantage? 1 man team? How are you going to turn them to your favorite?

What is your business plan? marketing plan? sales plan? Operation plan? Now you are a businessman, not just a technical guy! Recall what you learn in your MBA.

I hope I didn't push you too hard but I learnt it in the tough way and I want you to prepare for it and be succeed

That is why I need a business partner. I have 100% confidence about the new designed product, the advantage of it? High capacity, advanced tech, low maintenance cost. :-) I am in the industry and know what I am doing. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-17 (#5553962@0)

I have no doubt that you know what you are doing. But being a business man is very different than an architect. I started my small business nearly a year now and still doing very bad. I can blame the poor economy but -hkchan(0); 2009-9-17 {1184} (#5554015@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛at the same time, I know it is party due to the fact that my thinking is still an architect rather than a business man.

And I don't want to see you suffer the pain that I went through.

You have to understand your potential customers, their pain, their problens, their concerns. At the same time, you have to find out who your competitors are and sleep with your enemy. Put your friends close and put your enemy closer! Why you? Why not your competitors? All your clients would ask you these 2 questions.

And your clietns care about the benefits, not the features! At least mine don't care! They don't want to know what BI is, what ETL can do. I have to tell them the benefits and you have to tell them in 1 mintues. If you can't convince them in 1 minute, they would not have the interest to talk to you, to see your demo and sign contact with you. So what is your 1 minutes sales pitch?

I hope you understand I am not trying to kill your idea, even you may be my competitor 1 day. Let's say if 1 day we both present our idea to the same client. I am selling either MySAP or Microsoft Dynamic CRM Online. How are you going to sell your product over mine?更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

I was a business person long before I came here. It was a long story of adventure in China if you want to hear it how I was a good salesperson. I am now enjoying both sides: Technology, and Business. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-17 (#5554026@0)
support!. -judy_an(绿腰); 2009-9-17 (#5554059@0)
What you mentioned no doubly are all right. One important thing in business world which you neglected to say is Personality. Your success depends much on how people you deal with perceive you, whether they psychologically like you or not. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-17 {153} (#5554093@0)
This is something poor sales try to avoid to answer.

This is a big topic and interesting issue, we can sit down and talk about it for days and nights.
朋友, 你在对牛弹琴. 他还LIVE在他的FANTASY. -whereismyid(到处找ID); 2009-9-17 (#5554328@0)

I live in my fantasy as well; but my small business is not doing good. I hope he can do better than mine, then I can get a job in his company. LOL! It is good to have a dream! -hkchan(0); 2009-9-17 (#5554370@0)

请参看(#5555003@0), 如对产品,我的想法感兴趣,约个时间仔细谈. 我没有在这里空谈, 东西实实在在. 我也想从你的经历中学些东西. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-17 {117} (#5555009@0)
我已经卖出一套,全套开发环境,原代码,代为申请VPS, 建立所有数据库, 培训开发人员, $XXXX.

我现在想的是卖服务,做增值.

"I now beat them all" - I highly doubt it. -anthonylo2008(anthonylo); 2009-9-17 (#5554223@0)

问题不在于系统的设计是不是易于扩展，而在于谁来扩展。 -heeltoe(不過三); 2009-9-16 {582} (#5553634@0)
这个世界上home build framework成千上万，哪个作者都跟你一样觉得自己的是好的。你的到底好不好就不讨论了，反正你肯定觉得是好的，而我也没见过，就假定它很好吧。
但是，再好它也不可能是bug free的。如果我的应用系统用了你的框架，你框架的bug谁来解决？
再好它也不会自己跟上未来的变化。比方说我的应用今天用XML来集成，明天我要用REST，要用JSON，谁来维护你的框架？甚至后天webservice再有我们今天想不到的发展呢？
你说没问题，你来。可是你明天出车祸了呢？或者你买彩票中了大奖退休了去享受人生了呢？
你说没问题，你给源码。
我要你源码干嘛，我有自己的应用要维护，还要多维护一个框架，那不是灾难是什么。

你這個是個系統維護更新換代的普遍問題。（1）公司運轉，僱人做繼續開發，維護。（2）徹底開源，來自世界上的志願者去做開發維護。Framework其實是一種思想，一般只有2-3年壽命，必須時時跟進，其實IT的任何應用產品，2-3年后就大不一樣。 -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-16 (#5553657@0)

貌似你并没有认真考虑过你的框架的未来，只是自己的孩子自己爱，它好，它就是好，它哪儿都好 -heeltoe(不過三); 2009-9-17 {818} (#5554451@0)
最残酷的可能性是，你把它开源，不要钱，求着人用，都没人用。

对你来说它是你的宝宝，它有多好多好。对别人来说，它不过是yet another framework，一个还没有应用实例的framework。已经有那么多成熟的开源框架，我为什么要用你这个？你说它high capacity，谁不是？你说它advanced tech，谁不是？你说low maintenance cost，谁不是？
你说framework其实是一种思想，good point。你的framework的核心思想是什么？是其他开源框架缺乏的吗？

你说你缺少一个business partner帮你convince users，那你靠什么convince一个人来做你的business partner呢？

抱歉，是你的故事让我这么想。它是你圆梦的结果，而不是你对行业问题的答案。如果你换一个版本的故事，你潜在的business partner会感兴趣：
“我在CRM行业XXX年，发现市场上/开源社区缺乏一个XXXX的产品，现有的solution比如XXX,XXX,XXX和XXX都在XXXX上不足，于是我决定自行开发一个框架....“

这些XXX，你填得上吗？

好,在这里无法说清楚,如果感兴趣, 我们面对面,我仔细讲. 对行业问题的答案我们一一道来, 我只是提出个话题, 找合伙人而已, 产品,实实在在. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-17 (#5555003@0)

+1 -hkchan(0); 2009-9-17 (#5553891@0)

ML也是很用精用力的。你是没有呢还是占的比例太少不值一提？ -corvette(烤饭); 2009-9-16 (#5553086@0)

區區小事一狀，怎與事業相提並論？ -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-16 (#5553093@0)
what is ML? message? -hkchan(0); 2009-9-16 (#5553191@0)

Have you heard about Azure from Microsoft? Take a quick look! -hkchan(0); 2009-9-16 (#5553207@0)
我知道您想听什么。英雄，佩服啊佩服，五体投地，我怎么就这么没出息呢，业余时间光发呆了呢。楼上的太不厚道了，说句人家爱听的这么难么？ -vega_lee(天津包子-就不改); 2009-9-17 (#5554081@0)

I don't care what people say good or bad. Just my honest expression. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-17 (#5554095@0)

If you don't care, why you said it in public? and if everybody says it is bad, how you can make it work for others? If you just use it for yourself, it is not a software, it is your toy. -vega_lee(天津包子-就不改); 2009-9-17 (#5554102@0)

Well actually I learned a lot from your guys discussion on this topic. -judy_an(绿腰); 2009-9-17 (#5554111@0)
I care comment which is striking and I ignored before. I care the true experience behind word. Being here is the freedom of speech, I am not trying find out customers, but a critical thinker and adamant practitioner. I am glad if you think you are. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-17 (#5554152@0)

包子,别怪我说你, "我知道您想听什么。英雄，佩服啊佩服，五体投地，我怎么就这么没出息呢' - You have a narrow mind. You actually know you are not responsible to answer my any post, and not a policeman to regulate ? stay cool and enjoy something else. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-17 {38} (#5554199@0)
你曾说:一堵墙塌了, 我的想法是: 很无聊.

我说出了我的想法，我确实很佩服。说我自己，朋友帮我做美工让我做点可以卖lisence的小工具，我都懒的做，所以说自己没出息。但是网上没这么认真，所以我说话总是很调侃。如果觉得narrow mind，说明您太认真了。 -vega_lee(天津包子-就不改); 2009-9-17 (#5554221@0)

凡是说出想法又握手的,都是朋友. :-) -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-17 (#5554232@0)
你必须要知道我在这的目的: 好玩, 享受想法, 我明了这里人的能力,处境和背景,我没有什么期盼, 不想去交什么朋友, 不特意拣好听的说, 对于女士,我尊重,但我是大男子主义, 对于男人,我鼓励, 希望大家都绅士, 保持自由, 良好的虚拟空间. 有共同想法就互相督促, 没有,下潜. -nicetomeetyou(蓦然回首彩虹跨天地); 2009-9-17 (#5554284@0)

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问题不在于系统的设计是不是易于扩展，而在于谁来扩展。

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