恕我直言, 饺子, 你是个很理性的人, 但是你是不是想到过中国几千年来从来就不缺少理性的. 是啊, 一直我们是礼仪之邦, 如何的文明, 而我们现在生活的土地的祖先发动过多少次想十字军东征这样的血腥战争? 但事实呢, 看到有多少 -mjs(臭豆腐) @华人论坛:枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of

枫下茶话 / 社会 / 恕我不能加入.......my opinion towards post #840820" 请大家跟帖支持油站事件的同胞" -dropoutinmiami(东北的饺子); 2002-11-7 {1811} (#841806@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛还没开头，就知道自己有点多余，也许会让有些朋友感到不快。先说声得罪了。

HARDY的遭遇实在是outragous，换谁都让人气愤。大家在回贴中已经给出了处理意见。但现在这种征集签名，联名上书等等，我怎么都感觉有点异样。

1. consumer dispute
消费者和商家的冲突。我相信谁都碰到过，而且今后还会碰到。我们要作的是保护自己的权益。通常和商家直接打交道，通过逐级投诉，一般来说都能得以解决。如果不能解决，可以通过BBB，其他消费者权益机构施加压力。商家的目的是赚钱，第一他们不愿得罪顾客，第二他们很在乎word of mouth，第三任何纠纷的处理和解决都是有成本的，包括时间精力在内。因此就本人的经验，大部份纠纷在这个阶段就解决了。如果不能，下一步通常是small claim court，其程序简单(相对于通常的law suit)，不一定要律师介入，周期短(几个月-一年)，因此也是解决日常纠纷的一个重要手段。

Hardy的事情，当时处理方法欠妥当，事后我认为他要花精力解决这个问题，是很值得赞赏的，因为这样，才能学会这个新的社会体制，从而可以学会保护自己的手段。
我认为通过上述的步骤应该会有结果，如果没有，就沿着有效途径继续追究。不过现在成了“欺负了hardy，就等于欺负了所有中国人，体现了中华民族的弱点，要为所有中国人找回公道，还有13亿人民站在其背后”。。。联名上书之类的，我怎么觉得有点不对劲儿呢？下次碰到类似“黑心商家”，我们再成立个"crisis coordination center", 来一次联合行动？

2. Identity
我是中国人，但是我认为我只需要为自己的行为负责。做了“好事”，只能说明我算个“好人”，并不意味着我给中国人，中华民族争光；做了“坏事”，只能说我个人有问题，不能说我就丢了中国人的脸。
不知道为什么我们喜欢把自己的identity总往collective identity上靠。所以我觉
得hardy应该自己投诉(可以参考别人的意见)，其他愿意参与的朋友应该表示concerns和关注，因为你们都不是当事人人啊。更何况ESSO公司尚未受到投诉，还没有机会给出反馈和处理。如果当事人的投诉没有结果，其他人写信表示关注也在情理。而现在的这种作法总觉得有点怪怪的。

一己之见，多有得罪。

不管怎样，希望你们如愿以偿。更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Wise -mssg(mssg); 2002-11-7 (#841826@0)
同感. 入木三分! -collapsar(笨笨和旦旦); 2002-11-7 (#841836@0)

Absolutely right! -gladhill(gladhill); 2002-11-7 (#841847@0)
ONE VOICE and THOUSLAND VOICES -robertchoi(Robert Choi); 2002-11-7 {2962} (#843018@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Let's think: why Canada put head tax only to chinese begining of last century?, Don't blame anybody, I am sorry but I have to say because we are "TAXABLE". The reason we are "TAXABLE" is we are not community player, we just care about our small family, in one word, when things happen, we have only ONE VOICE, we don't have THOUSLAND VOICES behind that ONE VOICE.

They TAX you, "so what?", What you can do, you are just by yourself!!!!.

You might say:"If ONE VOICE is right, there is no difference if only ONE VOICE or THOUSLAND VOICES".

You are wrong!

Who judge one thing is right or wrong?, by people!, You think "he is right, he will be OK, so I don't need be there", You are wrong!.

To have "right" tag hanging on your case file is NOT by default, you have to earn it. In order to have that "right" tag on your side, you need THOUSLAND VOICE behined that ONE VOICE.

You want see what is the difference between "ONE VOICE AND THOUSLAND VOICES"?,

O.J Simpson case, Tell me what is the result, why?,

See how black community do?, see how they are united THOUSLAND VOICES and get "right' tag on OJ side?, they do street demonstration, they call medias, put pressure, they do possible anything to help OJ, even in some church.

Those people have family and jobs just like you and me, they might loose money because their time spend on the things like this never make them money. but they understand the difference between ONE VOICE and THOUSLAND VOICE. Most important, which we should learn, is they put in action.

We understand this theory too- thouslands years ago, but we never exercise it, we just talk about, talk and talk....

Right now Hardy is not ask the support like OJ, he are not ask you to do anything cost you, just a email signature to add your "ONE VOICE" into his "THOUSLAND VOICE" to behind his "ONE VOICE" when he talking to a Monster. so that he can get better chance to get back his lost indignity.

To support a good people, can your do it?, do you want move a small step just like other "ONE VOICE", show your support to a good people.

Forget Hardy's chinese background, if you see this happen, can you just walk away and ignore it?, if you have kids, ask your son or daughter, they will give you correct answer!

We help Hardy, not just because his chinese background, if he is a black or white people, I think I will do the same thing. I probably can not quit my job and full time helping him, but I can at least let him know "Hardy, you are doing right thing to protect your rights, you want collect name, that's fine, put my name on it". I know I did what I should do, doesn't matter what is the result, at least I did my part. And I feel good for what I did. We may loose even with "THOUSLAND VOICE", but at least we tried.

So please put your "ONE VOICE" in now before Hardy send letter to Esso.
Not much, just a email signature.

Be there...更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

我想签名支持他，可我找不到他的原文了，怎么帮呀？ -ppppping(homesick); 2002-11-8 (#843432@0)

谢谢！请看 http://www.rolia.net/forum/forum_showPost.php?tno=98434&pno=841922& -hardywang(Hardy); 2002-11-8 (#843548@0)

How to be there? -dahuaidan(最爱两个night girl); 2002-11-8 (#843433@0)

as well as: http://www.rolia.net/forum/forum_showPost.php?tno=98434&pno=843506& Thanks! -hardywang(Hardy); 2002-11-8 (#843552@0)

Send your name, email adress and phone to hardywang@hotpop.com -robertchoi(Robert Choi); 2002-11-8 {24} (#843551@0)
Thanks for your support.

1，在生活中，我们不需要作任何事情，都总是先确认结果会是赢，因为这不可能，因为没有人会未卜先知。所以我们"支持"他的意思是，不管输赢的结果，我们都站在他身边。2 -babyface(★RAW RAW★); 2002-11-7 {437} (#841873@0)
上法庭真的不是一件了不起的事情，至少我知道我有一个朋友(GREEK)，开着一个店，每年夏天，政府都要给他加税( 500-1000 吧, 有几种) 。所以他每年也都习惯了要代表自己上一次庭，告政府。开始几次，他还咨询律师，后来都是自辩的。

知道他告了多少年吗? 10 多年，而且10 有 8 赢。

他笑着告诉我: I don't understand why they have to do such stupid thing every year, I just hate I have to waist one afternoon every year to deal with this sh*t!

:-))
1. Definitely right 2. Definitely wrong -ssi(文文); 2002-11-7 (#841897@0)
恕我直言, 饺子, 你是个很理性的人, 但是你是不是想到过中国几千年来从来就不缺少理性的. 是啊, 一直我们是礼仪之邦, 如何的文明, 而我们现在生活的土地的祖先发动过多少次想十字军东征这样的血腥战争? 但事实呢, 看到有多少 -mjs(臭豆腐); 2002-11-7 {1051} (#841906@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛中国人挤破头出来就知道了. 我们说日本人多兽性, 多可耻. 但是看看有多少中国人开着日本车, 用日本电器, 看日本卡通就知道了.
为什么呢? 因为这个世界往往使用实力和权利来说话的, 而不是用那些道理来说话的. 扯回到这件事, 如果换到是个白人, 加油站还敢这么做吗? 他们是不是会有顾忌呢? 这种故事还少吗? 为什么呢? 因为中国人太好欺负了, 太理性了, 太没血性了! 柿子检软的捏, 那是走遍世界都没有错的道理.

如果通过这件事, 传出去以后, 那以后我们的同胞再碰到这样的事时, 加油站的老板是不是会有顾忌了, 在没有确凿的证据时就不敢乱来了?

我们都身在国外, 当然一个人的品性不能代表全体中国人. 但是我们应该团结起来, 最起码树立中国人不是软柿子的形象. 这和政党选取是一样的, 你的代言人占的议席多, 你这个群体的权益就更能受到保障.

还是那句话, 中国人从来就不缺理性, 而是太欠缺血性. 所以, 同样面对两个人, 一个是个很超脱很有道德的人, 但是他的目的是以自己为中心的. 那我佩服他, 仅此而已. 另一个人他站出来, 为了整个群体去做些事情, 那他也许有时候不理智, 有时候粗暴, 甚至有些坏毛病. 但我会敬仰他, 甚至跟随他. 因为他能给我或者我们带来更多的利益. 而前者那个高人, 对大多数人来说是毫无用处的.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

好！ -babyface(★RAW RAW★); 2002-11-7 (#841920@0)
道理很大, 有尾大不掉的感觉. 上纲上线不太好, 团结同意. 困惑的是为什么要是中国人? 在我的心中, 我是一个地球人, 或是宇宙人, 没有国家地域之分. 当然, 为了避免争论, 我再强调一次, 是在我心目中而言. -collapsar(笨笨和旦旦); 2002-11-7 (#841940@0)

我不会和你争, 因为饺子还有自己大观点, 不管我赞不赞同, 我愿意和她探讨一下. 你的话就是废话, 还宇宙人?是你就算是史前恐龙也和我无关. 最后, 请就此打住. -mjs(臭豆腐); 2002-11-7 (#841983@0)

对不起, 我只是说在我心目中我是这么想的, 但并非证明我是对的. 不知什么地方令你这么不开心. -collapsar(笨笨和旦旦); 2002-11-7 (#842038@0)

I thought you were teasing me. Anyway, I am sorry if I misunderstood your intentions. -mjs(臭豆腐); 2002-11-7 (#842052@0)

Misunderstanding is inevitable, don't take it personal. Next time, when I say sth, I'd better type in an extra 8 ) to indicate my intention, 8^) -collapsar(笨笨和旦旦); 2002-11-7 (#842056@0)

我怎么觉得正好反过来？我觉得我们太多血性，太少的理性。当然胆小怕事，明哲保身不叫理性。when people trade their liberty for a little bit security, they will get neither and they don't deserve either. -dropoutinmiami(东北的饺子); 2002-11-7 (#841941@0)

沽名钓勾者？ -bruce33(Hacker); 2002-11-7 (#843282@0)

really? think about 1957, 1966-1976, 1989. 理性 is such scarce treasure -mssg(mssg); 2002-11-7 {131} (#841945@0)
we've seen so many times people went crazy, the only lesson we learned is history repeats itself.

Be a reasonable man or woman.
还有, 第二点你更是错的一踏糊涂了. 你知道吗? 你的肤色, 你的脸等等都已经告诉人家你的Category了. 比如碰到个黑人, 一般人不需要知道他的名字和任何事情, 但不敢轻易惹他的, 因为大家知道黑人比较Tough. 还有以前一篇 -mjs(臭豆腐); 2002-11-7 {470} (#841967@0)
报道, 说在美国一般抢劫商店抢中国人的多, 但不感碰韩国人的, 因为有几次有人在韩国人的店里干坏事. 被店主开枪打死. 所以每人敢惹他们了. 但是, 记住, 不是所有的韩国人都打死过人的. 他们这个群体中的一些人为整个韩国人取得了这个名声.
你不需要做没件事都想到你是个中国人, 但你必须做些事情为你所在的群体建立一种形象. 这次加油事件就是这种情况. 而且不管你的国籍是啥, 配偶是谁, 外语多好, 你在人家眼里就是一个中国人, 如果整个中国群体就是一个软弱的情况的话, 你就永远比其他群体更容易受伤害.

nonsense, I am scared of you = I respect you? -mssg(mssg); 2002-11-7 (#841977@0)

I would rather be scared of than be pissed off... -found(**想吃夹沙肉和麻辣兔); 2002-11-7 (#841987@0)

you are lost. -mssg(mssg); 2002-11-7 (#841993@0)

I'm not in a game to win. -found(**想吃夹沙肉和麻辣兔); 2002-11-7 (#842001@0)
呵呵, 人家很对啊. 举个例子吧, 你以为美国在全球推销他的价值关是因为美国人的口才比人家好或者道德关比人家高尚吗? 如果没有强大的军队在后面撑着儍大母早就把美国给专政掉了. -mjs(臭豆腐); 2002-11-7 (#842020@0)

US is too much for you to understand. -mssg(mssg); 2002-11-7 (#842025@0)

hehe, It seems that we don't have much in common. Finally, I want to cite some words to stop our argue. " East is East, West is west, Never the twain shall meet." -mjs(臭豆腐); 2002-11-7 (#842037@0)
争论归争论，也不能说这种insulting的话给臭豆腐)。借用Globe and mail广告中的一句话：perspective is everything. 尊重别人别人才能尊重你。对吗？ -found(**想吃夹沙肉和麻辣兔); 2002-11-7 (#842047@0)

Sigh, Rolia is too much for me. -lilyba(Sunshine); 2002-11-7 (#842051@0)

See what I told you about that guy. ^_^ -ssi(文文); 2002-11-7 (#842058@0)

我想MSSN的意思可能是说: it is much more complicated than it appears.我这样理解的, 不觉得他/她有意INSULT MSJ. 不过论坛上说法比较容易有歧义... -dropoutinmiami(东北的饺子); 2002-11-7 (#842057@0)
hehe, that is why I stopped saying anything to her/him. If she thinks she is the God, then she is. It is none of our business. Why bother? Anyway, Thanks for your help buddy. -mjs(臭豆腐); 2002-11-7 (#842064@0)

回答不自立的人几个问题不够资格做人典范；认真探讨问题，懂得共同发现人生道理去照亮每个人的人生才是值得敬重的。 -ssi(文文); 2002-11-7 (#842078@0)

hehe, Yes. If we discuss something with somebody and his answers are soemthing like "You are lost", "...too much for you to understand", what can we do? Shut up and stay away from him. -mjs(臭豆腐); 2002-11-7 (#842098@0)

我只是举了个例子. 如果真要争, 这话题会很大. 而且容易招来删贴. 我也不想多说. 还有你楼上的问题, 也一样. 总之你可以继续在网上理性地回答问题来帮助别人. 其他人也可以用其他他们认为对的方式来帮助别人. -mjs(臭豆腐); 2002-11-7 (#842004@0)

这一点我同意. 支持的继续支持, 关注的继续关注, 我属于关注之列, 能帮忙的地方, 也愿意帮忙. 利用上文, 对现有做法表示疑义, 并不没有阻止大家的意思. -dropoutinmiami(东北的饺子); 2002-11-7 (#842021@0)

好！ -babyface(★RAW RAW★); 2002-11-7 (#842023@0)

"不管你的国籍是啥, 配偶是谁, 外语多好, 你在人家眼里就是一个中国人, 如果整个中国群体就是一个软弱的情况的话, 你就永远比其他群体更容易受伤害. " No matter you are willing to accept this or not, this is sadly true! -smplgk(寻常寂客); 2002-11-7 (#842872@0)

Sorry, that the reply went to the wrong thread. I wasn't expecting it show up here. -smplgk(寻常寂客); 2002-11-7 (#842887@0)

你说的现象确实存在, 而且非常严重, 尤其在美国, 尤其是黑人. 但是我自己的CONSUMER DISPUTE我都自己按照常规程序解决; 我并没有觉得碰到这些事情是因为我的肤色; 而碰到的DISCRIMINATION我把他们告到法庭上了. -dropoutinmiami(东北的饺子); 2002-11-7 {199} (#842015@0)
我只是觉得HARDY这个事情, 走的路子不太对头. 我更希望看到:

每个个体对于不公, 敢于STAND UP AGAINST IT, 当然不排除征求他人意见的做法.

而这件事情"联名上书", 觉得是NOT TO THE POINT...KIND OF ODD...

你没有觉得碰到这些事情是因为你的肤色；我们希望因为我们的肤色而不会碰到这些事情。 -pasu(InTheSky); 2002-11-7 (#842653@0)

严重同意!! -bruce33(Hacker); 2002-11-7 (#843238@0)

Disagree with your #2. Speaking of IDENTITY, in many situations you are judged not by your individual identity but your appearance. People are people. People make connections from this tiny teeny individual case to -found(**想吃夹沙肉和麻辣兔); 2002-11-7 {664} (#841908@0)
the whole Chinese community.People are biased and so are we as we are laughing at the unpleasant body odor of some groups due to their diet habit. In reality it is the group identity that matters more and no matter how many generations you are, your face tells who you are. Of course Hardy is responsible for the whole thing but our support mean a lot to him. Out support is also conveying the image to the outsiders that we are in solidarity. If Hardy takes what he is given, I’m sure next time when that guy is to find a scapegoat for the unpaid bill and if there are one Chinese and one Caucasian or one Black customer to choose from, a Chinese will be chosen.
那为什么赵巍案件被拖延，就代表了整个中国或亚洲呢？ -yellow(yellow); 2002-11-7 (#841954@0)

饺子是个很自私的人。赵某是女的，她就帮。这位老兄是男的，她就不帮。 -ppgg(聪明小子); 2002-11-7 (#842492@0)
Good point! I can hardly believe that 饺子 holds such different attitude toward this two things. -smplgk(寻常寂客); 2002-11-7 (#842900@0)

I think her point is right, "这种作法总觉得有点怪怪的". I don't feel comfortable either. But this disagreement didn't stop me from helping them. The point is, 联名上书 is not the only way to show your support. -smplgk(寻常寂客); 2002-11-7 (#842906@0)
An old saying, "Never argue with a woman" -guest011030(b2); 2002-11-7 (#842908@0)

留个EMAIL是表示大夥儿的态度和支持，毕竟都是加拿大的少数民族，英语又是SL。这和小时候为哥们儿意气出去打群架的非“理性”CASE是有区别的！ -7ntxx(曾经 tic_tac 过); 2002-11-7 (#842572@0)
I couldn't agree more! -huayu(huayu); 2002-11-7 (#842664@0)
华人需要团结才能在加站得住脚,比如说在国会301个席位中至少要有10名华人议员才能与华人在加拿大的人口比例相符,事实上只有区区两个! 但我仍然同意饺子观点-这仅是商业纠纷而已,硬扯上RACE IDENTITY,我们的关注层面也太低了吧? -wzap(wzap); 2002-11-7 (#843158@0)

只是挖掘一下，也不是不可以。但你的观点也太.......你要啥子层面？？ -bruce33(Hacker); 2002-11-7 (#843255@0)
说到民族团结互助,犹太人才是我们的榜样而不是黑人或朝鲜人... -wzap(wzap); 2002-11-8 {493} (#843349@0)
...,原来他们跟黑人一样受歧视,但现在其在政治经济占有举足轻重的地位,我想原因大概是1)团结 - 宗教原因?2)素质.
如果他们象黑人一样只停留在街头抗争的层面,而不从根本上去设防改变现状,就会永远摆脱不了受歧视 -- 抗争 -- 再受歧视 -- 再抗争的怪圈.

如果这件事发生在某JEW 身上---
1.) 象ESSO COMPLAIN --- JEW 控制着ESSO 管理层和董事会.
2.)控告加油站不住--犹太人有全城最好的律师.
3.)叫警察,如其少有不敬 -- 登报,犹太人控制着舆论导向.NATIONAL POST 的老板是犹太人.

现在你是否明白我说的层次是什么意思了吗?
我到觉得TMD花人议员越多, 我们越到霉! -playtiger(秋去冬来, 望春风); 2002-11-8 (#843535@0)

你也不要恕不恕的，反正你不在多伦多！！！ -bruce33(Hacker); 2002-11-7 (#843295@0)
MY POINT，如果HARDY是个白人而仍然会遭受到这种待遇，那这是个体的纯商业纠纷；如果他的遭遇PARTLY是因为他的肤色，那我们就应该站出来一起支持他。 -sunnysmile(碧水蓝天); 2002-11-8 (#843434@0)

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