A hundred viewers probably have a hundred different opinions. In this article, my pastor raised a point that, we failed even our conscience, not to mention God's (if there is a God).
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-9(#3793475@0)
The thing is, even the passing grade is lowered down to 1, we might still fail! And that's why we (Christians) need Jesus Christ, who makes us holy.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-9(#3793484@0)
do you mean that Jesus Christ is similar to a wild card, no matter how many good you do, if you don't believe it, you are doomed to be in Hell; but no matter how many bad you do, if you believe it, you are guaranteed to be in heaven?
-can362(can362);
2007-7-9(#3794694@0)
Let Bible answer this question: "(John 3: 16) God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son so that whoever believes in Him might not perish but have everlasting life."
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-10(#3795070@0)
So YOUR answer is YES: no matter how many good you do, if you don't believe it, you are doomed to be in Hell; but no matter how many bad you do, if you believe it, you are guaranteed to be in heaven?
-can362(can362);
2007-7-10(#3796133@0)
If this question demands an answer of either YES or NO, then I think you are right it's a YES. Of course, there are things deeper than that. For example, what is "believe", how to judge whether one "believe"s or not, and so forth.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-10(#3796163@0)
Then you have to define the term "believe in" first, I am sure that Christian's definition is different from the one on any dictionary. Can you share Christian definition of "believe in" with us, so our non-Christian won't get misled?
-can362(can362);
2007-7-10(#3796329@0)
It's not that complicated in a sense that if one is truthful to oneself, he/she just knows (whether one believes or not). It's simply a matter between one and God. And of course, this topic could be rather big too Biblically.The definition you found is close enough.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-10{41}(#3796488@0)
So, do you mean that if a person, as evil as Hitler, believe in God, he will goto heaven even though he murdered millions of innocent people; meanwhile, those millions of people he murdered will go directly to Hell just because they are not Christian?
-can362(can362);
2007-7-10(#3796576@0)
What if Hitler believe in God but rather than repented, he choose to do it because he know he will be in heaven anyway, and he is very proud of what he do. Would he still be granted free pass to heaven?
-can362(can362);
2007-7-11(#3797304@0)
No you didn't. You changed my question and answered your own version, but you never answer mine. I repeat: My Hitler believes in God, accepts God as his personal savior but never REPENTS his sins.This thread is too long, I will post another one to the root. See below.
-can362(can362);
2007-7-12{72}(#3801451@0)
For those victims who knew God, but didn't choose to believe in God, when they died, they probably ended up in Hell, yes.But for those who didn't have a chance to know God before death, there are some controversies where they will be. I have to say I don't have the answer.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-10{154}(#3796918@0)
Sorry, I misunderstood your point thinking your Hitler actually repents. I am having dinner right now, will get back to you ASAP.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-12(#3801632@0)
Remember the two desciplines: 1. Trust God. 2. Love your neigbor, Even Hitler love God but doesnt love his enemy, He is not qualified in heaven. Hitler select sucide, he absolutely can not get into heaven cause he doesnt even perish himself
-mildcoffee(Mild Coffee);
2007-7-17(#3812776@0)
1. "my Hitler" is a virtual person, not the real one, even collapsar know that. 2. Do you mean that if a person doesn't love his enemy, he is not a Christian. Then tell me which one is true: a. Inquisition ppl love Bruno; b. They love BBQing Bruno.
-can362(can362);
2007-7-17(#3812880@0)
I learned from your original post that your parents are not Christians, now I want you to be "completely honest". Is killing them a "SIN"?Or you may need to consult someone to know the answer? I can wait.
-tomduntcom(dotcom);
2007-7-18{66}(#3814701@0)
Of course it is a sin, because I am aware of it in my heart (God didn't tell me to kill them), in this context.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-18(#3814745@0)
I didn't say you to do it.
-tomduntcom(dotcom);
2007-7-18(#3814763@0)
Oh, my bad. OK, so if the killer doesn't have justified reasons to do so, yes, it's a sin.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-18(#3814849@0)
To make the world a better place to live, religion wise.
-tomduntcom(dotcom);
2007-7-18(#3815099@0)
:) I would say, this world is not a good place to live, religion wise.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-18(#3816224@0)
not a "SIN" though, if "completely honest". Thanks for sharing.
-tomduntcom(dotcom);
2007-7-19(#3817244@0)
Since there is no question on this, I would like to ask you a question you accidentally brought up by telling me why you haven't done it by yourself - because God didn't tell you to do so.Just for my curiosity, why didn't you do that for God's sake? As we all know, you are a grown up adult, and you don't have to ask permission from your parents for everything you need to do. same principle applies, you don't have to ask God everything you can do.
God didn't ask you to do this ! = You can't do this for God's sake.
You still don't get it, do you? You "allow" me to do it, it's your business. But whenever I do it, however I do it, it's my own business. Leave me alone (to my own choices).
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2008-1-17(#4195421@0)
My "if..not" is not a Q but a summary of yours Roman 6, so nothing needs to be answered. I'm a bit confused by your last sentence coz the tons of comments you mentioned on Internet seems all on my side. Oh, the link is for you to ask your pastor.
-can362(can362);
2007-7-17(#3813116@0)
Right, I should have said there are also tons of comments on "your" side.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-18(#3814751@0)
Thank you for your kindness.也谢谢你尊重Christian的信仰，不过你不需要这么做。我尊重执着于其它宗教信仰人，但我从来不尊重其它的宗教信仰。
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-21{107}(#3822316@0)
理解，圣经道德还没有高到尊重其他宗教嘛。我们Atheist道德高，虽然可能不认同，我们尊重任何宗教诠释的世界，即使它是颠倒黑白。这次介绍一下Christian道德水平低的事实，省得Christian show off 道德优越感时又自己羞辱自己。这是圣经道德的局限，不怪你们Christian个人。
-can362(can362);
2007-7-21(#3822380@0)
I only speak for myself.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-21(#3822439@0)
I understand, that's why I said that it is not your fault.
-can362(can362);
2007-7-21(#3822448@0)
Good, that's exactly what I wanted to know.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-21(#3822478@0)
更有意思的是这个数据的分析方法,根据这篇文章的算法,加拿大属于top fifty countries containing the largest percentage of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or non-believer in God 中的第20位. 然而我刚刚根据加拿大统计局的统计数字算了一下(将佛教人后排除后) 非宗教人数只占20%左右.我们就按这篇文章的算法19%-30%,那么究竟加拿大算做atheist, agnostic, or non-believer人口多的国家还是highly religious nation?
不会把highly religious nation的谋杀率/婴儿死亡率/贫困指数/文盲率低；富裕程度/生活期望指数/教育程度/性别平等程度高算成atheist的了吧?
-happy_boy(远山红尘);
2007-7-21{338}(#3822469@0)
Oops. my bad, I shouldn't compare viretically within one country and among different years, The author doesn't have this kind of data. I should compare between countries. Sorry.
-can362(can362);
2007-7-22(#3822873@0)
No problem. 如果你承认社会健康程度不是由单一宗教信仰因素决定的或是主要由宗教信仰因素决定的话，那么就已经足够证明这种结论的片面。因为存在太多其它因素。这就好像我年龄的增长与地球变暖的关系一样。在两个数据完全正确的前提下，可以说有联系，也可以说没有必然联系。
-happy_boy(远山红尘);
2007-7-22{64}(#3822908@0)
"翻译一下文献结论吧：世界范围内，高自发无神论化国家社会健康程度最好，高宗教化国家社会健康程度最差--can362(can362)". 实际上,这里某些所谓“高自发无神论化国家”其实恰恰正是highly religious nation。因此结论其实证明highly religious nation社会健康程度最好。
-happy_boy(远山红尘);
2007-7-21(#3822595@0)
“我们Atheist道德高，虽然可能不认同，我们尊重任何宗教诠释的世界，即使它是颠倒黑白。这次介绍一下Christian道德水平低的事实，省得Christian show off 道德优越感时又自己羞辱自己--can362(can362)” 这是您后面的结论吧，呵呵。
-happy_boy(远山红尘);
2007-7-21(#3822609@0)
You are right, I went overboard... not that my argument of the Christian moral is proven wrong, but this paper has nothing to do with it. Sorry everybody
-can362(can362);
2007-7-22(#3822948@0)
It wasn't meant for answering your questions or for kicking off the discussion again. It only meant to tell you that I was wrong at one point. And again, I won't discuss this further.
-collapsar(笨笨和旦旦.Emmanuel);
2007-7-23(#3824477@0)